Skip to Content, Navigation, or Footer.
Support the IDS in College Media Madness! Donate here March 24 - April 8.
Friday, March 29
The Indiana Daily Student

arts

Q&A with Phil Chan and Doug Fullington

entphilchan120822.jpg

The world is constantly evolving and sometimes art must be revised to be more inclusive. Indiana University guest lecturer Phil Chan is a co-founder of Final Bow for Yellowface, an organization dedicated to removing racist Asian stereotypes from ballets and making ballet a safe space for everyone. 

Chan, in collaboration with dance historian Doug Fullington and the Indiana University Ballet Theater, is now working on a reimagining of “La Bayadere,” a classical ballet piece set to debut at the Musical Arts Center in 2024. The IDS spoke with Chan and Fullington about this process on Dec. 8. 

Related: [Indiana band Northwest’s new bedroom pop album discusses heaven and life transitions

IDS: Why is it so important to understand the history of orientalism in ballet? 

Chan: If you don’t understand the history, you’re liable to repeat some of the same mistakes. We can examine what the context was when the work was made and reflect on how we can continue to make the work alive for this moment. I think that’s true with any of the performing arts. 

Fullington: And it helps you sift through the elements of a particular work — to see what things you want to address specifically. Over time, things may have been added to that work that you may want to change now that weren’t part of the original production, so I think it’s important to have your history straight and understand the context. 

Chan: You also have to understand the social context. What was that work saying in that moment? Art is quite subjective and does reflect the society that it’s made in. Then, when you’re able to see that with clear eyes — why are we repeating this work for this moment, why do this now? 

IDS: Are there ballets that can be reworked for this new world? 

Chan: Well, we’ll be presenting a production of “Bayadere” in March of 2024 here, so it’s exciting. The IU students are getting to be a part of this process from the ground up and are getting their hands dirty with this material.  

Fullington: Some productions like “Bayadere” were set in a particular place because of what was going on at that time. Queen Victoria becoming empress of India, the Prince of Wales visiting India in 1875 — these were things that people were reading about, and Petipa the choreographer thought, ‘This is in the news, so I’m going to set a ballet here because everyone’s interested in India right now.’ But the story that makes up the ballet is common material that could fit many locations and scenarios. So that’s what we’re doing: we’re lifting it out of India and placing it somewhere else. 

Chan: And there’s nothing culturally specific about India — nothing about it is Indian — so why does it have to be India in our production? And the answer is no, it really doesn’t have to be. 

IDS: How long has your version of La Bayadere been in the works? 

Chan: Doug and I first started talking about this in 2018, so it’s been four years that we’ve been talking about it, and it’s premiering in 2024 — so, overall, it’s been a six-year process. 

IDS: So how do you begin to rebuild this entire performance? 

Chan: Doug and I looked at what it was supposed to be at that time. What was it saying? What was the point of it? What was “Bayadere” and what does it have to be? Then, imagining what it could be. How do we make it about us? And what’s a better reflection of us as diverse Americans than the cowboy Hollywood fantasy? 

IDS: Looking into the history of “Bayadere,” what spoke to you? 

Fullington: Well, a lot of it was this exotic orientalist context and what little the creators knew about India and how they dealt with it. It was fascinating, just seeing more general ways how exotic places were depicted in arts. It was a mishmash, and it didn’t matter so long as it was somewhere far away. You can see that in how “Bayadere” was put together. So, can we do something with it but just not have it be in a hierarchal depiction of people and cultures? 

IDS: It’s well-known that blackface is heavily reprimanded in the arts industry. By comparison, why do you feel this same treatment isn’t given to yellowface? 

Chan: I think that there’s a belief that, (with) being Asian, there’s a proximity to whiteness that makes it feel like it’s less of a big deal. The model minority myth is very much alive in the Asian community, so I think because of this we don’t take jokes against Asian people as seriously. The good thing is that through our advocacy, Final Bow for Yellowface is bringing awareness to it. Once you see it you can’t unsee it. 

IDS: In 2017, Final Bow for Yellowface worked with the New York City Ballet to revise the Chinese dance in “The Nutcracker.” Why was that such a big moment for the organization? 

Chan: I think because Balanchine’s Nutcracker is probably the most performed version of “Nutcracker” today, many major companies do it and it’s an iconic production. New York City Ballet is one of the top companies in America — and probably the most conservative — and they’re the heart of George Balanchine’s legacy. So, if something with a strong pressure to maintain tradition was able and willing to change, then why not everybody else? 

IDS: How do you have that conversation with choreographers so that it doesn’t turn into finger-pointing and shaming? 

Chan: I think it’s really questioning and sharing if the impact really matches someone’s intention. If you as a choreographer think it’s being perceived by audiences one way, but the reality is it’s not, our goal as artists is to make sure that what you mean to say is what people hear. Those two things are congruent. I think focusing on how it’s being perceived and coming across is a better way. It’s still hard and people still get defensive but it’s a better way to get people to listen. 

IDS: Final Bow got several established ballet companies to sign a pledge against Asian stereotypes. What was the goal there? 

Chan: The pledge is just starting a conversation with these companies. Nobody’s perfect, but it’s a conversation starter. It’s awareness and it’s a start to committing to do better. It’s really that continuing dialogue where change happens.  

Related: [The Kinsey Institute unveils Dr. Caroline Beebe Gallery

IDS: How do you begin to encourage change in the arts when people are always defending tradition? 

Chan: Do we still wear the same clothes we wore as little kids? No — we grow and change, and people who think that there’s an authentic version — I don’t think they understand what the performing arts are. Static arts, film, paintings, sculptures — those capture the zeitgeist of the moment. But the performing arts — opera, ballet — every show is different. No two shows are the same. So, if we’re changing this art form all the time, why can’t we change how we represent people of color? What was once innovation is now tradition, so when we say, ‘That’s not how it traditionally was,’ what are you talking about? Every new generation added and cut dances, so we’re not being anti-original, we’re going back to the original that subsequent productions left behind. So, which one is more authentic? 

Get stories like this in your inbox
Subscribe