Pop Culture Bracketology: Film Directors round two discussion and results

Below is the discussion that took place via e-mail between WEEKEND staffers over the past few days concerning round two of our Film Director bracket (note: grammar/style is conversational, and less “correct”). Then below that are the results!

Round three discussion begins today.
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Cory Barker: We’re into round two of our film directors bracket. Take a look and get debating. This was the most lively discussion in R1, let’s keep it that way.

Brad Sanders: I’ll throw out my upsets:

Spike Lee over Steven Spielberg. I know, I know. I use pop culture discussions at Weekend to vicariously express my crushing white guilt, but seriously guys: no one matters more to African Americans AND white hoity-toity film school types than Spike Lee. His movies and his documentaries, as well as his constant presence court-side at Madison Square Garden and his long-before-they-were-cool trademark glasses make him a hero, an icon, and one of the most underrated filmmakers of all time. Spielberg, well, he’s Spielberg. He’s the director people can name when asked to name a famous Hollywood director. Nothing about him, especially this decade, screams all-time greatness.

Judd Apatow over Paul Greengrass. If someone gets a nod for comedy, it’s gotta be Apatow. Greengrass did some neat stuff with the shaky cam but he directs action flicks, and action flick directors are a dime a dozen. I’m not the world’s biggest Apatow fan, but his movies will continue to put asses in seats for the rest of forever.

Jason Reitman over Sam Mendes. I’m not really sure how Mendes is a 3 seed. Reitman has knocked several out of the park this decade and was probably a favorite for Best Director this year until Cameron vs. Bigelow became the prevailing storyline.

Andrew Stanton over Ridley Scott. Sort of cheating but let’s say his involvement with every Pixar movie whether it was as director or not makes him more than deserving of this matchup. What does “directing” an animated flick mean, even? I’m sure it’s a very collaborative process, and he collaborated on greatness for the last fifteen years.

Peter Jackson over Tim Burton. Burton does what he does and he’s good at that, I guess. But Jackson’s mastered a ton of different styles, and not too long ago, he squeezed a boatload of Oscars out of the Academy for the THIRD MOVIE IN A FANTASY TRILOGY. I think it’s impossible to understate what a feat that is.

Ron Howard over James Cameron. Ron Howard is super-consistent. James Cameron barely works, and when he does, half the country hates it. No contest for me.

The rest, I’ll take the higher seed.

Max McCombs: Lee and Spielberg is the matchup of this round in my opinion.  I haven’t decided yet.
 
I completely agree on Jackson, and probably on Howard too.

As for Ridley Scott, watch American Gangster, then we’ll talk.

Chad Quandt: It’s true Spielberg hasn’t done anything great recently. He started to lose directing traction as far back as 2001 (though I’m a fan of Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can). I want to blame his more recent failures (War of the Worlds, Indy 4) on lack of a good story and not on his own techniques. And everytime I hear Spike Lee I think of the superior Spike Jonze (who somehow lost to Lynch).

Brian Welk: The Lee/Spielberg race is interesting. There are even critics who would point to multiple films by either of them as Best of the Decade (Lee: 25th Hour, Passing Strange) (Spielberg: Minority Report, A.I., which appeared on a surprising number of Best of Lists), and each has a good number of masterpieces under their belts, obviously. For whatever reason, I’m still leaning towards Spielberg.

I’m kind of with Brad on Reitman over Mendes (although it is closer than you would think), but most definitely not with him on Apatow over Greengrass. Greengrass stands out as an action director in a field of people who have tried emulating his style and failed, missed the point that action films are still about characters and not stunts or Baysplosions, and have not made films as culturally relevant as he has.

Good cases made on all the others that have been mentioned. We should definitely meet up and talk. I’m also a bit torn at the match up between Fincher and Aronofsky. Thoughts?

John Barnett: Alright, let’s see what we’ve got here.

1. Martin Scorsese
8. Woody Allen

No contest. Marty blows Woody away.

5. Clint Eastwood
13. Danny Boyle

Again, no question. Clint moves on.

6. Sidney Lumet
3. Joel and Ethan Coen

This region is easy. Coens trounce Lumet.

7. Spike Lee
2. Steven Spielberg

And Steve blows Spike out of the water.

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Newbies-ish Region

1. Paul Greengrass
8. Judd Apatow

Greengrass mostly popularized his certain brand of action filmmaking, which as someone else said is often imitated but rarely if ever duplicated. Apatow, though, ushered in a new age of intelligent, R-rated comedies. Apatow’s style has been more successfully replicated, though. I’ve never been ok with Greengrass being a 1-seed here, but I think he might have a slight edge in this one only because Apatow has worn out his welcome in the eyes of some. My personal pick would be Judd, but I won’t fight to the death for him here.

5. Pedro Almodovar
4. Guillermo Del Toro

The difficulty here is that Del Toro has really only made two great movies (Pan’s Labyrinth and The Devil’s Backbone), and Almodovar has made a whole bunch of great movies that very few people that read WEEKEND have ever seen. If we’re going to base this on sheer quality of output, though, Pedro should take this.

6. Jason Reitman
3. Sam Mendes

I’ll argue to the death for Mendes to absolutely KILL Reitman here. Reitman’s witty dramedies do not trump American Beauty, Road to Perdition and Revolutionary Road by any stretch of the imagination. I believe Mendes will still be around making great films decades from now, and Reitman will follow in his father’s footsteps (check out his filmography and marvel at the amount of crap on it). Who am I kidding, though? I’ve always had it in for Jason.

10. Sofia Coppola
2. Alfonso Cuaron

I’m still sort of reeling over Sofia beating Innaritu in the last round. I’m guessing most of the voters hadn’t seen all his movies. I mean I love Lost in Translation to death, but I don't know. Anyway, Cuaron should win this based on Children of Men alone. Sheer brilliance.

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Indie Darlings

1. Quentin Tarantino
8. Gus Van Sant

Tarantino wins easily.

5. David Lynch
4. Wes Anderson

As much as I love most everything David Lynch has ever made, I argued for Spike Jonze to beat him in the last round and I will argue for Anderson to beat him here basely solely on timeliness and relevance to “the now.” Royal Tenenbaums is my favorite comedy of all time, and The Life Aquatic is not far behind. I also loved Darjeeling Limited, but it’s admittedly more of a minor-key work. Again, if we’re talking lifetime achievement, Lynch takes this one, but if we’re talking relevance and recent output then Wes wins.

6. David Fincher
3. Darren Aronofsky

This match-up is just ridiculous. I feel somehow that the seeds should be switched, but we’ve got what we’ve got. Regardless of seeding, both of these guys have made multiple outright masterworks, and neither of them have an ounce of compromise in them. My own personal preference leads me to want Fincher to take this. I would not be unhappy with either outcome, and if you put both of their best films (Requiem for a Dream and Fight Club) up against one another I think Fight Club would come out on top. I’ll have to mull this one over a lot more before making my final vote.

7. Steven Soderbergh
2. Paul Thomas Anderson

PTA moves on without breaking a sweat. The only thing Soderbergh has on PTA is that he made a movie with Sasha Grey.

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Populist Pros

1. James Cameron
8. Ron Howard

I know Cameron has only made two film in the last 15 years, but they just happen to be the two highest grossing films of all time both in America and worldwide. Not that I’m arguing that box office and popularity with the masses should hold much weight in these pairings, but if even Cameron would lose here I think he’d remain, true to form, the massive elephant in the room for the remainder of this bracket. Ron Howard has mostly made overly sentimental drivel and we all know it. I love Apollo 13 as much as the next guy, but c’mon. Fucking TITANIC and AVATAR. Jim’s movies demand gratuitous capitalization. He wins.

5. Peter Jackson
4. Tim Burton

This one will probably spark some argument, but I think Jackson wins hands-down. To my mind, the last great movie Burton made was Ed Wood in 1994. I really enjoy Sweeney Todd and Big Fish, but Jackson made me weep for a giant ape for fuck’s sake. Oh, and he made the LOTR films. No small feat.

11. Andrew Stanton
3. Ridley Scott

Stanton wins the consolation prize for being the only animation director to make the second round, but his ride ends here. Of course I have to admit I’m basing my Ridley vote most on his earlier work, as I haven’t seen a film of his since Kingdom of Heaven. I just don’t think a Stanton win here could be in any way justified unless you were 10 years old.

10. Sam Raimi
2. Christopher Nolan

Nolan is poised to become one of the most important and compulsively watchable directors working today, if he’s not already. Memento, Insomnia, Batman Begins, The Prestige and The Dark Knight is one hell of a resume, and Inception looks mindblowing. I really hope he doesn’t make a Superman movie, though. Raimi, on the other hand has not made a movie I would call great since A Simple Plan, although I liked Drag Me to Hell quite a bit. And yes, I know Spider-Man 1 and 2 were good as far as comic book movies go, but you’re talking to a guy who thinks the best comic book movie of all time is Shyamalan’s Unbreakable.

BS: Oops, I missed a region of the bracket. I’m taking Lynch over Anderson for personal reasons (like I love Lynch and absolutely hate Anderson) and Fincher over Aronofsky because Requiem for a Dream is close to the most overrated movie ever.

MM: I’m increasingly leaning toward a Howard upset over Cameron.  It’s not a quality vs quantity fight here, because they both have quality on the resumes, but Howard has simply turned out a lot more of those quality fils as of recent.  Also, you’ll probably never hear a Cameron movie called underrated, where as Cinderella Man is for my money one of the most underrated films of the past decade.

CB: Solid thoughts all around.

Thank you, Brad for bringing up the racial injustices of the world. Again, I really appreciate it. I tend to like Spielberg films more than Lee’s, but you can’t disagree with the relevance and heft of Spike’s output. I haven’t seen them, but his Katrina docs were supposedly AMAZING, as was 25th Hour. SS has his hands in everything these days, but as a director, I can’t think of anything lately that is “memorable” about his style. I loved Catch Me If You Can, but I’m not sure he had a lot to do with it.

Fincher v. Aronofsky is definitely a throwdown of epic proportions. I really love Fincher’s films, especially Fight Club and Zodiac, but was underwhelmed by Panic Room and understand the hate for Button, even if I like it. Has Aronofsky made a bad movie? I still don’t know what the fuck The Fountain is really about, but god if it’s not a beautiful film. AND that’s his “most disappointing.”

Interesting that people are clamoring for Howard over Cameron. I agree with Max’s thought about Cinderella Man and find myself enjoying almost all of Howard’s films. But he has no stylistic identity, right? I might dislike parts about Avatar, but you can’t deny that it was all Cameron. You know/?

BW: So back to Fincher v. Aronofsky, I’m torn because the only Fincher film I can say I really “love” is Zodiac. Otherwise, I’ve got some cult film bias or something stupid like that. As for Aronofsky, I think the Wrestler is brilliant, even if I am the only critic on Earth who thinks its one of the best of the decade.

I’ll agree that Cinderella Man is underrated, and I still adore A Beautiful Mind, but then you have the overrated Frost/Nixon and of course Da Vinci Code AND Angels and Demons. I think Opie Taylor’s run ends here with the King of the World.

BS: I wasn’t aware that Frost/Nixon was overrated; I was the only person I talked to who liked it.

BW: Oh, then that maybe makes this easier. I guess the Best Picture nomination tipped me off.

CQ: As for Cameron, Avatar was about as much a personal project you can have. With that many crews and teams, its arguable that Cameron could’ve been removed from aspects of the production more than say other films nominated for Best Pic. The few Oscars the film got (teams for visual effects, art direction) dealt with people more responsible for Avatar’s famed visuals than James. This is all speculation, but that’s the impression I’ve gotten from Behind The Scenes vids. Howard doesn’t have any really unique style, but Cameron doesn’t either.

I love his older films like everyone else but Titantic was on last night. I watched it explicitly to try and observe what Cameron was doing, and nothing seems particularly memorable. It’s mostly your generic swooping shots outside the boat and standard walks through the interior.

Brian Marks: On Aronofsky vs. Fincher, I side with Aronofsky. I think Zodiac was intriguing and pleasantly dark, but the only other film of his that I’ve liked was Se7en. Benjamin Button wasn’t horrible, but it was still a misstep. With Aronofsky, I haven’t seen Pi, but I thought Requiem and The Wrestler were great. The Fountain was mostly fluff, but it was great looking fluff. I’d actually agree with Brian that The Wrestler is one of the best films of the decade. The blue collar aspects of that film really suit the times, and Mickey Rourke’s performance is incredible. His family problems are very poignant, and his meat-loaf face can convey so much pain.

I go with Spielberg over Lee. For all of Spielberg’s not-so-good movies this decade (War of the Worlds, The Terminal) he made some really great films. I think Munich is one of his top 5 maybe. I’m kinda surprised people haven’t really mentioned it, maybe they didn’t see it since it was marketed more as an art film. It’s the most serious thing he’s done since Schindler’s List, but this time there isn’t any debate about capitalizing on the Holocaust. The film also has a great ensemble cast.

There’s also Minority Report, a rare film in which Tom Cruise doesn’t seem like a douchebag. I’d say it’s one of the best science fiction films of the past decade or two. And then there’s A.I., the step-child no one wants. The movie didn’t get great reviews when it came out, but I really enjoyed it. Spielberg was good friends with Stanley Kubrick all his life, and I think that’s what made him so successful at copying the dark, sterile tone. I don’t fault him for making it so unemotional - that’s the whole point. Even though he had some bad films this decade, I think the best ones showed him really maturing into some kind of late period.

CQ: I gotta go Aronfsky all the way. Big fan of even The Fountain. Brian says it right. If you hate the movie’s story, every shot is gorgeous. I remember thinking, “if I did drugs, I’d want to do them to this movie”. That’s ironic considering Requiem. So many stills from The Fountain ended up being my computer’s desktop. But his other movies are tight and well done. Requiem is alongside Trainspotting for the best drug movies and The Wrestler is one of the few times I genuinely enjoyed an ambiguous ending. His biggest flaw is probably going a little too “artsy”, but I look forward to his releases more than most.

MM: The wrestler is a long-tenured member of the “movies Max really needs to get around to seeing” club, but Fight Club is my favorite movie, period. I’m going to have a hard time going against Fincher regardless of the arguments for Aronofsky.

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RESULTS FOR ROUND TWO -- Winners in Bold with percentage of vote

Veterans Region

1. Martin Scoresese -- 89 percent of vote
8. Woody Allen

5. Clint Eastwood -- 67 percent of vote
13. Danny Boyle

6. Sidney Lumet
3. Coen Brothers -- 100 percent of vote

7. Spike Lee
2. Steven Spielberg -- 67 percent of vote

Newbies(ish) Region

1. Paul Greengrass
8. Judd Apatow -- 56 percent of vote

5. Pedro Almodovar
4. Guillermo Del Toro -- 56 percent of vote

6. Jason Reitman
3. Sam Mendes -- 56 percent of vote

10. Sofia Coppola
2. Alfonso Cuaron -- 89 percent of vote

Indie Darlings Region

1. Quentin Tarantino -- 100 percent of vote
8. Gus Van Sant

5. David Lynch
4. Wes Anderson -- 56 percent of vote

6. David Fincher
3. Darren Aronofsky -- 67 percent of vote

7. Steven Soderbergh
2. Paul Thomas Anderson -- 89 percent of vote

Populist Pros Region

1. James Cameron -- 56 percent of vote
8. Ron Howard

5. Peter Jackson -- 89 percent of vote
4. Tim Burton

11. Andrew Stanton
3. Ridley Scott -- 56 percent of vote

10. Sam Rami
2. Christopher Nolan -- 89 percent of vote

Any surprises? Did anyone get the shaft? Sound off below.