Local Libertarian speaks on issues

Paul Hager said he wants to make it clear that he isn't evil.\n"What's evil about getting your message out?" asked the 50-year old software engineer and Bloomington Libertarian. "Politics has two functions: one, as a vehicle for spreading your message, and two, getting yourself elected."\nThe two are related, said Hager, who has run twice for Congress and once for Senate on the Libertarian ticket, against Ind. Sen. Richard Lugar and U.S. Rep. John Hostettler. \nAn alumnus, Hager is best known for his somewhat unconventional views on gun ownership and marijuana legalization. Still, Hager said neither he nor the Libertarian Party intends to change these views simply to increase the chance of being elected.\n"Basically, we think we're right," Hager said. "People sometimes bandy about the word 'leadership'. Well, we (Libertarians) are idea leaders. We are at the front lines. We are the world's foremost human rights group. We embrace 'em all and that's why sometimes we sound like left wingers, sometimes we sound like right wingers, sometimes like extreme moderates and sometimes we just sound like Libertarians."\nHager said that while he intends to remain involved in political issues, he is uncertain about running for office again.\n"Running for office is a difficult thing to do, especially if you put a lot of effort into it," he said. "The second time I ran, I put in all that effort and got just over 2 percent of the vote. It can be discouraging."\nCalling it censorship, Hager said he still resents being excluded from the debates last fall between Lugar and his Democratic challenger, David Johnson. \n"I don't believe we were artificially excluding anyone," said Mark Lubbers, a volunteer for the Lugar campaign who helped organize the debates. "The winner was either going to be Senator Lugar or David Johnson."\nMore important than getting elected, Hager said, is getting your ideas to have an effect on politics, especially in the case of a third party.\n"If one or both of the two major parties adopt your policies, then you've won," Hager said. "If you can scare the hell out of the major parties, you've accomplished your purpose."\nHager cited Social Security as an example of how the Libertarian Party has affected current political issues.\n"Bush is actually beginning to move in the direction that Libertarians have been working on for 30 years, and that is that Social Security should be phased out," he said. "People need to save their own money, and the fact that a major party is finally recognizing that, it makes you think, 'Hey, we've been right all along. In fact, it was interesting to see Clinton, who was so much against the idea during the election, now saying, 'Oh, well, actually it's a good idea.'"\nSocial Security isn't the only issue Hager feels strongly about -- he carries his 9mm Bulgarian Makarov pistol with him everywhere.\nIndiana has allowed licensed citizens to carry handguns since 1935.\nAs long as the gun owner has a license, Monroe County Sheriff Steve Sharp said it makes no difference to law enforcement officers whether they carry them openly or concealed.\nHager is strongly committed to Second Amendment -- he resigned from the NRA in 1998 because he felt the group was becoming too mainstream.\n"I almost find it funny when anti-gun people criticize the NRA," Hager said. "The NRA is the best friend they have." \nHager now makes contributions to a smaller organization called Jews for the Preservation of Firearms ownership, which he said is more focused on upholding the Second Amendment.\nHager has carried a gun for seven years, and recently started carrying openly, instead of keeping his weapon concealed. He said the reason for this was to encourage more discussion about guns and the right to bear arms. He said the reactions to his gun haven't been what he expected.\n"I was really very surprised," Hager said. "I have gotten a few odd looks, but some people stop and say, 'I really do agree with what you're doing, and this is great.' Of course, I wasn't too surprised -- I mean, this is Indiana. I've seen other people doing this too, and I'd like to see more people carry more openly as a political statement."\nHager said he used to sympathize with those who were against gun ownership. "It is true that if no one had any guns, no one could shoot anyone," he said. "But anti-gun people think that only the government should have guns, and it's been demonstrated that when only the government has guns, well, sometimes governments go bad, sometimes they shoot millions of their own people."\nHe added that there is also a "halo effect" surrounding gun owners, and pointed out that people who don't have guns are protected by people who do. He said that since the mid-1970s, violent crime in the United States has gone down, while gun ownership has gone up.\n"My big issue right now is self-defense," Hager said. "This is what I'm going to spend all my time on."\nStressing the importance of student involvement, Hager said that everyone should be aware of all issues that are part of a political decision.\n"It's really important for students in particular to develop the habit of being active and involved, and the only reason to get involved in politics really is self-defense," Hager said.